This is too good not to blog about. I recently had a visitor to my blog who posted a comment in my "Signing For Something" post. Now, I've had people leave me snide remarks from time to time, but this guy actually wrote an entire thesis statement that is too good to be left in the comments.
I give the guy props, he seems to post using his real name. Without further ado:
(My responses to Jeff are in blue)
Jeff said...
I think that you are all being pretty nieve about this whole issue. No naivete here. We've all challenged the way that we were raised and taught, and came to these conclusions on our own, after thorough thought and research. The law already has already defined marriage to include homosexual couples. We live in a common law system, which means that laws are created in 2 ways. 1) governing bodies enact laws and 2) courts define/refine the meaning of laws by their rulings. The California courts have already ruled that homosexual marraiges are legal (despite the previous law enacted). The law in California has been ammended to include homosexual unions as marriage, yes. However Proposition 8 wants to change that law, and I'm vehemently against Proposition 8. That's the point that I'm arguing here. So what are the implications you ask? Textbooks will include new definitions of the word family. Pictures of same gender families will become required, "Oh Noes!" Yeah, I have no problem with any of this otherwise the textbook publishers will be found to be discriminatory. Law suites will enforce this. State sponsored and required sex eduction classes will begin (in some states they already have) to teach that homosexuality is natural, and acceptable and that if you have feelings toward a same gender then it is natural and right to pursue those feelings, as natural and as right as any other form of sexuality. It's pointless to argue this with me and many others, because we believe that homosexuality IS natural. Let me ask you something, Jeff. When did you decide to be straight? When did you decide to like women? At any time in your life, did you think "I need a date to the prom. Do I ask a boy or do I ask a girl?" I'm willing to bet that this thought has NEVER entered your mind. Why? Because naturally, you are attracted to women. Sexual attraction is not a choice, Jeff. Counselors in schools and other state sponsored programs will likewise be required to treat homosexuality as normal and acceptable behaviour. Okay. Currently in some sex ed classes, dildo's are passed out to be handled so that students can get comfortable with them. These districts will also encourage that homosexual feelings be explored.These are not things that I want my children exposed to .. That's fine... but they will not have an opportunity to opt out. How do you know? This depends on where you live. In the state of Utah, parents have the choice to opt their children out of sex ed. I think this is a travesty of immense proportions, but it's the current law. You're making assumptions, Jeff. This will be required and state mandated. Should the church care about such things? and are they wrong to appose them? I personally do not feel that way. The church has the right to care about anything it wants to. And, it can preach from the pulpit, anything it wants to. That's not the point. The thing that gets to me, is the church stating one week "We do not encourage our members how to vote, we ask that they pray over the issues and vote their conscious", and the next week (or same day, even?) Say "We encourage our members to donate their spare time and dollars towards fighting proposition 8." It's hipocracy that gets to me. It's the emotional blackmail that the church imposes on its members. Is it because I'm homophobic? perhaps. Admitting it is the first step to overcoming it. Good job, Jeff! Not in the sense that I fear it but I fear the consequences that it will bring. What consequences? How will your neighbors right to practice homosexuality the same way you practice heterosexuality, affect you? Will it make your spouse or children love you less? Will it make the price of gas go up? Will hurricanes wipe out New Orleans? What? Seriously, I want an answer to this. WHAT ARE THE DIRE CONSEQUENCES THAT WE SHOULD FEAR? The church has the right to encourage it's membership to participate in actions that fight this. Sure, but call it what it is. To say that the church should put their efforts into other acts of humanitarian service is a bit strange, just because there exists other opportunities for investment does not mean that I should put all of my resources to one specific task. Fair enough. Besides, as a member, I am reminded once a month to donate to the poor through fast offerings. Yeah, I remember donating to fast offerings until it hurt. My husband was the finance clerk for awhile, and was constantly being called to sign checks for various reasons for people in the neighborhood. I'm aware that the money donated goes directly to the ward boundaries, then the stake boundaries, until eventually the "extra" funds ended up at the church headquarters. I also remember the great Tsunami at the end of 2004, and we were all encouraged to generously donate to the cause. So, my husband and I wrote a giant check out to the Humanitarian Fund, happy to support those in extreme need. I was shocked and dismayed to find out later that they weren't taking money to support the Tsunami victims from the Humanitarian Fund, but from fast offerings instead. So all the "Extra" money that people donated to their fast offerings went first to those in our neighborhood who couldn't pay their gas or water bills, then to those in the stake who couldn't pay their gas or water bills (and in my ward and stake there were A LOT!!), and THEN whatever money was left, was sent to church headquarters where it was then distributed to the Tsunami victims. I find this practice to be devious and unfair. It manipulated the members to donate, thinking they were helping a global tragedy, when in reality they were just paying for more gas and water bills in the neighborhood. This was a giant "WHAT THE FUCK" moment for me. whenI am also reminded to support the humanitarian aid fund as well as the perpetual eduction fund regularly. Let's not discuss the perpetual education fund. I think it's a sham and it's another topic for another day. I am asked to donate my time to service projects regularly. In our ward, we have make quilts for babies in needs, collect items for humanitarian kits, and server regularly at a local service kitchen that feeds the poor. That does not include all of the service hours by the youth for scouting and young women projects. I never said that the church doesn't have a humanitarian bone, they absolutely do. So do the catholics, the jews, the atheists, and *shock shock horror* THE GAYS! Furthermore, the church has one of the largest welfare programs of any NON governmental organization in the world. Could they do more..sure. But that does not preclude them from spending time and effort in fighting for something that they believe is wrong. They have the right to. They have not asked you to agree with it, Um yes, they ask their members to agree with it they have not made it mandatory, Only in the sense of emotional blackmail, as previously stated. I remember ammendment 3 that was passed in Utah in 2004, legally defining marriage as between one woman and one man, when the church made similar pleas. They also said "Any member in good standing will vote to pass ammendment 3." Shit, I was a member in good standing, but I DID NOT AGREE with this law! I was emotionally blackmailed to vote AGAINST my conscious, because I had to be right in the eyes of the lord. rather they have asked you to prayerfully consider it. Is there something implicit in the recommendation? certainly. Bullying? no Yup. Wrong? and Yup. I cannot fathom a definition of wrong that would say that the church does not have the right to support legislation that it believes is beneficial. The church's position on political neutrality has long included a statement that exempts it on measures that it believe's it has a moral obligation to support. It is wrong to say that they CANNOT exercise their rights just because you personally disagree with their position. You can and should argue that you disagree with the position and you can say that their position is wrong because of x, y or z. But they are not wrong state and encourage support for their position. This point has already been argued above, I won't beat a dead horse here. I have always been amazed at the boldness of the homosexual in their plea for acceptance, and the fact that their behavior is not 'tolerated'. Following that line of thinking, then the church should willing ignore all sin. Sexual relations before marriage should be permissible and the church should stop telling people to refrain from it. Cheating during marriage should likewise be ignored, as should pornography. Oh dude, you did not go there, did you? Oh no you di'ent! Oh yes you did. *sigh* #1, in order to make homosexuality not sinful, then ALLOW THEM TO MARRY so that they CAN have sex in the confines of legal marriage. #2 where do you get off comparing sexuality to cheating on spouses and looking at porn? This all happens in STRAIGHT marriages! This is not a homosexual concept! This happens worldwide, and is not discriminatory. Come up with a better argument! In fact they should stop teaching the law of chastity in general and become accepting of all regardless. But such a position is ludicrous. Homosexuals say they are excluded which is true, but so are adulterers and fornicators.To which is commonly argued that they are therefore being asked to be denied the opportunity to express themselves sexually. To which every non-married member of the church can say...yes and your point is?Yet that is not what the Saviour teaches. I thought the Savior teaches love and accepetance for all, regardless. If the so called "Jesus Christ" were alive today, I would bet my life that he would support homosexual marriage. Christ loved everyone, and would not exclude a certain group because the majority found them to be "unnatural" Lastly a quick comment on the "God made me this way and hence will condone my actions because that is the way that I am made" I can find no such scriptural connotation. The invitation is to come follow Him regardless. To the alcoholic (genetic or otherwise) he says give it up. not the same thing To the rich man (earned or by birth) He asks to give all that thou hast. Indeed, the command (Abraham 3:25) "and we will prove them herewith to see if they will do ALL things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them." is to see what you are willing to give the Lord. Christ showed the example, he lived a perfect life in which he never had to taste the pains of guilt or remorse. Then He was asked to feel all of our pains and guilt and suffer in both body and spirit. Was it required FOR Him? no. but it became required OF Him and so He partook. Is it fair that Christ should have had to suffer for us? no it is not. But I'm certainly glad He did. Now He asks us to come follow Him. Regardless of our condition.
*sigh* I don't want to offend all of my readers regarding my take on chris and the atonement, so I'll let that lie. I responded to this in a moment of insomnia. It's 4 in the morning and my brain isn't exactly full functioning.
Anyone else care to banter on the subject?
Showing posts with label Dissaffection. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Dissaffection. Show all posts
Tuesday, November 04, 2008
Friday, September 12, 2008
No seriously... WTF!?!?!
In October of 2004, there was a huge push in Utah's politics to legally define marriage as between one woman and one man. The LDS church had letters read over the pulpits, encouraging its members to vote in favor of the legal definition. This was a huge struggle for me. I was a strong believing, contributing member of the church. I wanted to make the right decisions and actions to uphold my good girl image and high standing status. I wanted to be "right" in the eyes of God. But this? This went against my nature. It violated my internal instincts.
It never made sense to me that Marriage was a law of god. What about all of those married people who don't believe in God? Never have? What about my gay friends and family members who are every bit as excellent as my good mormon friends, who would be hurt by this measure? What about the LDS church saying that they stay out of politics and encourage members to prayerfully vote? I prayed about it, but I was not getting any warm fuzzies.
I posed the question on an LDS parenting board that I was a part of. I stated that I wanted to do the right thing, but I really didn't agree with what we were being told was right. I was very conflicted. The response I got was "Who cares if you have loved ones who are gay? What if you had loved ones that were addicted to drugs or alcohol... would you think twice about taking those away?!?"
Really? Did they really say that? Did they really compare a persons natural instincts of loving to being addicted to drugs or alcohol? Really? (For the record, I do not believe that our sexual orientation is a choice. Ask any hetero if they chose to be, and they'll tell you no. Homosexuals will also tell you no. I do not believe sexual preference is a choice we have control over. I don't see how it's possible.)
This was a huge ignitor in my disaffection flame. However, come time to go to the polls and vote, I ignored my conscious and voted the way "The Lord" would want me to. I can't think of a single decision I've had more regret over since this. Yes, I live in Utah and my vote wouldn't have made a difference, but at least I would be satisfied with sending the message saying "Not ALL of us agree with this!"
In California, Proposition 8 is on the ballot for these upcoming elections. Prop 8 would amend the California Consititution with a new section that would read "only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California." The measure, as submitted for the ballot by petitioners, is called the "California Marriage Protection Act."
Yes, this is California and doesn't affect me directly. However, I find it absolutely detestible that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is encouraging its members to vote in favor of this initiative. They're having letters read over the pulpit, and basically offering the TBM's "An offer they cannot refuse". They are bullying, and just downright WRONG. They need to take their black suit white shirt noses OUT of this, and focus on more important things. Such as third world hunger, education, and debt relief. A church this powerful could do so much more for the overall world progression than by convincing members in California to vote against gay marriage.
I won't assume that everyone who reads this blog has the same political affiliations that I do. For this reason, I rarely post political stances on my blog. However, if you're so inclined, please sign for something! I've got my real first and last name on that list, and I'm proud of it. What the church is doing is just wrong, no matter how you feel on the subject of gay marriage.
It never made sense to me that Marriage was a law of god. What about all of those married people who don't believe in God? Never have? What about my gay friends and family members who are every bit as excellent as my good mormon friends, who would be hurt by this measure? What about the LDS church saying that they stay out of politics and encourage members to prayerfully vote? I prayed about it, but I was not getting any warm fuzzies.
I posed the question on an LDS parenting board that I was a part of. I stated that I wanted to do the right thing, but I really didn't agree with what we were being told was right. I was very conflicted. The response I got was "Who cares if you have loved ones who are gay? What if you had loved ones that were addicted to drugs or alcohol... would you think twice about taking those away?!?"
Really? Did they really say that? Did they really compare a persons natural instincts of loving to being addicted to drugs or alcohol? Really? (For the record, I do not believe that our sexual orientation is a choice. Ask any hetero if they chose to be, and they'll tell you no. Homosexuals will also tell you no. I do not believe sexual preference is a choice we have control over. I don't see how it's possible.)
This was a huge ignitor in my disaffection flame. However, come time to go to the polls and vote, I ignored my conscious and voted the way "The Lord" would want me to. I can't think of a single decision I've had more regret over since this. Yes, I live in Utah and my vote wouldn't have made a difference, but at least I would be satisfied with sending the message saying "Not ALL of us agree with this!"
In California, Proposition 8 is on the ballot for these upcoming elections. Prop 8 would amend the California Consititution with a new section that would read "only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California." The measure, as submitted for the ballot by petitioners, is called the "California Marriage Protection Act."
Yes, this is California and doesn't affect me directly. However, I find it absolutely detestible that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is encouraging its members to vote in favor of this initiative. They're having letters read over the pulpit, and basically offering the TBM's "An offer they cannot refuse". They are bullying, and just downright WRONG. They need to take their black suit white shirt noses OUT of this, and focus on more important things. Such as third world hunger, education, and debt relief. A church this powerful could do so much more for the overall world progression than by convincing members in California to vote against gay marriage.
I won't assume that everyone who reads this blog has the same political affiliations that I do. For this reason, I rarely post political stances on my blog. However, if you're so inclined, please sign for something! I've got my real first and last name on that list, and I'm proud of it. What the church is doing is just wrong, no matter how you feel on the subject of gay marriage.
Thursday, January 31, 2008
Mostly recovered, but....
For the most part, I'm entirely over mormonism. I enjoy associating with former mormon's because we share a common history. For example, only former mormons will understand why I was elated to get my very own coffee pot. I no longer research why the church isn't true, and my angst is a thing of the past. However, I live in the heart of the Salt Lake City valley, so of course I'm subjected to it on a frequent basis. I sit across from a cute and friendly returned missionary at work, and we joke all the time about being different species. "Your type wouldn't like this movie" or "Only my type will appreciate this for what it is", etc. Luckily, religion doesn't interfere there, nor should it.
A couple of things happened last sunday that made me re-visit my former, mormon life.
First of all, my best friend from my most mormon days, found me on facebook. Her dad is a very well known, high ranking, church official. I won't talk trash about this family, because if you look at the real definition of what it means to be Christlike, this family had it. These people were genuinely GOOD with the best of intentions. Perfect? No. But they did make sincere efforts. During my friendship with them (which lasted many years), I was what some may call an EXTREME mormon. I read my scriptures daily. I never watched R rated movies, and was selective on my PG-13's. At the same time, I became critical of those around me not living the same standards, and harshly judged members of my own family. This wasn't intentional, it just was the way it was. I was able to live this principle, why couldn't everyone else?
My facebook photo shows me in my playboy bunny outfit. I list my relgion as "agnostic". Surlely, she knows that something is up. I'm not sure how to answer her question of what's new in my world. I've not had contact with her since long before I left the church. I think she'll be okay with my beliefs. I don't think that she'll bear her testimony to me.
But it's all so weird. It reminds me of trying to be so perfect for the approval of her and her family. I truly loved her family. Being friends with one of them meant being friends with all of them.
Second, the death of President Hinckley. The man was 97, so it wasn't a shock. He was not perfect. If he was by mormon beliefs, he would have been translated. He had a sweet demeanor, and was a cute old man. However, I know he had some skeletons in his closet. (Mark Hoffman, white salamander, etc.) I don't begrudge those who mourn his death. However I'm still annoyed that the flag in front of my building at work is lowered to half staff in his honor. And also annoyed that Barack Obama cancelled a campain trip to Utah "Out of Respect".
I never really fit the mold. I've been thinking of things that I said and did during my prime belief period. I recall sitting in meetings as the first counselor of the Young Women's presidency. I dreaded that call and didn't want it, but being the dutiful member, accepted the "calling". There was a discussion over whether an 11 year old girl, whose birthday was less than a month after the annual girls camp, would be allowed to attend. The president pulled out her rules handbook, and said that technically, she should not be allowed. I had to speak up and practically beg that they go by the spirit of the law, not the letter. And why alienate her? Why tell her she's not good enough now, when her peer group is?
I didn't get it.
There were other things that I never understood. Gays in the military. Gays adopting children, or getting married. A cup of coffee, or glass of wine in the evening. In my most believing days, these things didn't mae sense.
My last calling in the church was in the primary presidency. I love the small children, and wanted to serve them the best that I could. At the same time, I hated the last presidency meeting I had. We were planning the upcoming summer activity, and it was all about different stations of "Dressing modestly" and "Loving the Scriptures", "Respecting our Prophets". For PRIMARY kids? (Ages 3-12). This was supposed to be our FUN summer activity? I couldn't be part of that. I couldn't put my sweet 4 year olds, in the midst of that.
I left the church soon after this planning meeting, where I clearly had no say in the happenings. I wasn't a handbook type of person, and absolutely hated these meetings.
Sometimes I miss having an easy spiritual pick me up when I need it. I miss having rules set before me. I miss knowing everything. But, I appreciate my life, and things that I love, so much more than I ever did.
A couple of things happened last sunday that made me re-visit my former, mormon life.
First of all, my best friend from my most mormon days, found me on facebook. Her dad is a very well known, high ranking, church official. I won't talk trash about this family, because if you look at the real definition of what it means to be Christlike, this family had it. These people were genuinely GOOD with the best of intentions. Perfect? No. But they did make sincere efforts. During my friendship with them (which lasted many years), I was what some may call an EXTREME mormon. I read my scriptures daily. I never watched R rated movies, and was selective on my PG-13's. At the same time, I became critical of those around me not living the same standards, and harshly judged members of my own family. This wasn't intentional, it just was the way it was. I was able to live this principle, why couldn't everyone else?
My facebook photo shows me in my playboy bunny outfit. I list my relgion as "agnostic". Surlely, she knows that something is up. I'm not sure how to answer her question of what's new in my world. I've not had contact with her since long before I left the church. I think she'll be okay with my beliefs. I don't think that she'll bear her testimony to me.
But it's all so weird. It reminds me of trying to be so perfect for the approval of her and her family. I truly loved her family. Being friends with one of them meant being friends with all of them.
Second, the death of President Hinckley. The man was 97, so it wasn't a shock. He was not perfect. If he was by mormon beliefs, he would have been translated. He had a sweet demeanor, and was a cute old man. However, I know he had some skeletons in his closet. (Mark Hoffman, white salamander, etc.) I don't begrudge those who mourn his death. However I'm still annoyed that the flag in front of my building at work is lowered to half staff in his honor. And also annoyed that Barack Obama cancelled a campain trip to Utah "Out of Respect".
I never really fit the mold. I've been thinking of things that I said and did during my prime belief period. I recall sitting in meetings as the first counselor of the Young Women's presidency. I dreaded that call and didn't want it, but being the dutiful member, accepted the "calling". There was a discussion over whether an 11 year old girl, whose birthday was less than a month after the annual girls camp, would be allowed to attend. The president pulled out her rules handbook, and said that technically, she should not be allowed. I had to speak up and practically beg that they go by the spirit of the law, not the letter. And why alienate her? Why tell her she's not good enough now, when her peer group is?
I didn't get it.
There were other things that I never understood. Gays in the military. Gays adopting children, or getting married. A cup of coffee, or glass of wine in the evening. In my most believing days, these things didn't mae sense.
My last calling in the church was in the primary presidency. I love the small children, and wanted to serve them the best that I could. At the same time, I hated the last presidency meeting I had. We were planning the upcoming summer activity, and it was all about different stations of "Dressing modestly" and "Loving the Scriptures", "Respecting our Prophets". For PRIMARY kids? (Ages 3-12). This was supposed to be our FUN summer activity? I couldn't be part of that. I couldn't put my sweet 4 year olds, in the midst of that.
I left the church soon after this planning meeting, where I clearly had no say in the happenings. I wasn't a handbook type of person, and absolutely hated these meetings.
Sometimes I miss having an easy spiritual pick me up when I need it. I miss having rules set before me. I miss knowing everything. But, I appreciate my life, and things that I love, so much more than I ever did.
Monday, November 20, 2006
No matter what you do, you're wrong
In one of my first Blog posts, I talked about sitting back and allowing my daughters to make their own choices. For Halloween, they finally decided to be cowgirls. This surprised me because I don't have an ounce of country in me, but this was better than their alternative choices of Robots or Dragons. For their birthday they wanted an Easy Bake Oven (yay! I get to re-live my childhood with that! Even if it takes 44 minutes to bake 4 cookies, in addition to the 15 minutes of pre-heat time.), and Ben 10 watches, and a llama. A soft llama. They got everything they asked for andthensome, so I'm at a loss as to what I'll do for Christmas. But that's neither here nor there, carrying on...
Today when we were driving home after pre-school, one of them said "Mommy, when we get big like you, can we do whatever we want?" I replied "Yes, when you get older, you get to do and go wherever you want." So they started talking amongst themselves:
Emilie: We get to go into whatever stores we want and buy whatever toys we want!
Alexa: Right! And we can buy prizes for little kids all we want!
Me: Yes, when you get bigger, if you want to spend all of your money on toys, then that's your choice. But I think you'll grow out of wanting to buy toys at that point.
Which got me thinking. I distinctly remember when I was about their age, I thought to myself "I can't wait until I'm older, then I don't have to go to church ever if I don't want to!". Even though I didn't want to go to church, I forced myself for many years in order to keep my parents happy. I told myself that I liked it and that I was happy, but I wasn't. I didn't feel like I could make my own decisions until I was at the end of the rope.
Why do I still feel like I need to keep my parents happy with my life choices? My parents did a lot of things right when raising me. I had an ideal childhood filled with tremendous opportunities and a lot of love and fun, I have no right to complain. I was never spanked or grounded when being disciplined. I was, however, given severe guilt trips. My mom can be a master manipulator. In many ways, I think that is worse than spanking or grounding.
It's hard to let go. It's time for me to no longer allow what my parents think, to have any impact on my decisions. I hope that my daughters will have a sense of freedom of being.
In the meantime, does anyone know of a step by step instruction manual on how to raise your children, with proven success? Because I just know that regardless what I do, I'll manage to somehow royally fuck their lives up. How was I ever allowed to become a parent?
Today when we were driving home after pre-school, one of them said "Mommy, when we get big like you, can we do whatever we want?" I replied "Yes, when you get older, you get to do and go wherever you want." So they started talking amongst themselves:
Emilie: We get to go into whatever stores we want and buy whatever toys we want!
Alexa: Right! And we can buy prizes for little kids all we want!
Me: Yes, when you get bigger, if you want to spend all of your money on toys, then that's your choice. But I think you'll grow out of wanting to buy toys at that point.
Which got me thinking. I distinctly remember when I was about their age, I thought to myself "I can't wait until I'm older, then I don't have to go to church ever if I don't want to!". Even though I didn't want to go to church, I forced myself for many years in order to keep my parents happy. I told myself that I liked it and that I was happy, but I wasn't. I didn't feel like I could make my own decisions until I was at the end of the rope.
Why do I still feel like I need to keep my parents happy with my life choices? My parents did a lot of things right when raising me. I had an ideal childhood filled with tremendous opportunities and a lot of love and fun, I have no right to complain. I was never spanked or grounded when being disciplined. I was, however, given severe guilt trips. My mom can be a master manipulator. In many ways, I think that is worse than spanking or grounding.
It's hard to let go. It's time for me to no longer allow what my parents think, to have any impact on my decisions. I hope that my daughters will have a sense of freedom of being.
In the meantime, does anyone know of a step by step instruction manual on how to raise your children, with proven success? Because I just know that regardless what I do, I'll manage to somehow royally fuck their lives up. How was I ever allowed to become a parent?
Friday, October 27, 2006
The best weekend ever
I'm kind of stealing this idea from "from the ashes", but I really was thinking about blogging about this before. Even though I already posted today, I figured I better get this down while I'm thinking about it.
Garments. I wore them faithfully for 7 years, with the exception of swimming, bathing, sex, etc. Looking back, I admit to looking down on others when it was obvious they weren't wearing their G's, when I knew they should. Blech, I hate thinking about that.
It was just after my 7th wedding anniversary that I had my epiphany about the church, and my husband soon followed. I live and work among many church goers, so I kept wearing my garments to keep up with appearances for a couple of months. One night I was working late, and found out that there were U2 tickets available for a concert in Anaheim the next week. Very spur of the moment, I called and got the OK from my husband, bought the tickets, booked the flight and hotel, and made babysitting arrangements.
Several things went wrong this weekend. Our bus driver couldn't find out hotel, so he dropped us off at a random location and pointed us in the wrong direction, and we had to walk forever with our bags. We ate at the worst restaurant and ordered our very first alcoholic beverages (even though I was in California, I still looked around to see if anyone noticed). The drinks were terrible. The food was terrible. To give you an idea how bad-- my lunch came with with a basket of rolls, which were nothing more than toasted hamburger buns. We had no transportation (other the the busses to/from the airport) and had to walk everywhere we went.
When we were getting ready to go to the concert, I decided that my shirt would probably look better if I didn't have bulky garments on underneath, so on the floor they went. I felt naughty, but in a very good way. During the performance of "Beautiful Day", there was a moment after Bono sang "After the flood, all the colors came out...." and the entire arena was lit up with different colored lights. I stood there feeling the most euphoric I've ever felt, not being medicated. That moment was more spiritual than any time I had ever been to the temple or sat in sacrament meeting. In that moment, my entire world and outlook shifted. The next day my husband and I talked about it, and he had the same feelings at the same time. It was unreal, and we just knew that from that moment forward, everything was headed up.
We spent the next day at Disney and flew home that night. We were exhausted, but excited about life. To top off our weekend of sin, my hubsand got his first ever Starbucks at the airport.
A year and a half later, the garments have completely disappeared from our household. I considered keeping one pair just to remember, but decided it wasn't worth it. We've had a lot more alcoholic beverages. We've consumed gallons of coffee. We saw U2 two more times in 2005. Things have never been better.
But most importantly, the garments are GONE.
Garments. I wore them faithfully for 7 years, with the exception of swimming, bathing, sex, etc. Looking back, I admit to looking down on others when it was obvious they weren't wearing their G's, when I knew they should. Blech, I hate thinking about that.
It was just after my 7th wedding anniversary that I had my epiphany about the church, and my husband soon followed. I live and work among many church goers, so I kept wearing my garments to keep up with appearances for a couple of months. One night I was working late, and found out that there were U2 tickets available for a concert in Anaheim the next week. Very spur of the moment, I called and got the OK from my husband, bought the tickets, booked the flight and hotel, and made babysitting arrangements.
Several things went wrong this weekend. Our bus driver couldn't find out hotel, so he dropped us off at a random location and pointed us in the wrong direction, and we had to walk forever with our bags. We ate at the worst restaurant and ordered our very first alcoholic beverages (even though I was in California, I still looked around to see if anyone noticed). The drinks were terrible. The food was terrible. To give you an idea how bad-- my lunch came with with a basket of rolls, which were nothing more than toasted hamburger buns. We had no transportation (other the the busses to/from the airport) and had to walk everywhere we went.
When we were getting ready to go to the concert, I decided that my shirt would probably look better if I didn't have bulky garments on underneath, so on the floor they went. I felt naughty, but in a very good way. During the performance of "Beautiful Day", there was a moment after Bono sang "After the flood, all the colors came out...." and the entire arena was lit up with different colored lights. I stood there feeling the most euphoric I've ever felt, not being medicated. That moment was more spiritual than any time I had ever been to the temple or sat in sacrament meeting. In that moment, my entire world and outlook shifted. The next day my husband and I talked about it, and he had the same feelings at the same time. It was unreal, and we just knew that from that moment forward, everything was headed up.
We spent the next day at Disney and flew home that night. We were exhausted, but excited about life. To top off our weekend of sin, my hubsand got his first ever Starbucks at the airport.
A year and a half later, the garments have completely disappeared from our household. I considered keeping one pair just to remember, but decided it wasn't worth it. We've had a lot more alcoholic beverages. We've consumed gallons of coffee. We saw U2 two more times in 2005. Things have never been better.
But most importantly, the garments are GONE.
Tuesday, October 03, 2006
The World Is My Oyster Club
Now that I've shared my long and oh-so-boring disaffection story, I thought I'd tell you where I am at now, since my former world has long since crumbled down.
My husband and I joined the DAMU, mostly the AIMOO boards such as NOM and The View From the Foyer. We also joined Cherry, but that's not really part of the DAMU. For those who are unaware, DAMU stands for "DisAffected Mormon Underground". We started posting on the boards extremely anonymously. We used fake names with new email addy's to join. We wanted to remain as undercover as possible. We started getting to know some people, and little by little we began to reveal ourselves more and more. I was finally relaxed about using my real name and picture once I came out to my mom.
After our faith crumbled, and we were over the shocked part, we started our own paths of re-discovery. I won't speak about what happened to my husband as that's his story to tell, so I'll just make this all about me. I started learning who I was, what values I stood for, and what I wanted to accomplish and do with my life. I realized that I had been so lazy for so long, always relying on the magical mystery man in the sky to direct my paths. I no longer had someone to pray to when I was scared to drive in the snow. When my employer announced layoffs for my department, I couldn't assume that it was "his" will. I had to really find myself. And I got through some bad snowstorms, based on a competent car and driving ability. I learned to shine my resume and find another job without dwelling on the negatives (might I add, I got a kick-ass promotion with a lot more money out of the deal... so much for not paying tithing!). It sounds cliche, but I really learned to depend on me. I found strengths that I didn't know existed. I learned that I needed to figure out my own boundaries and comfort levels with many of lifes situations. I no longer had anything telling me what was okay and what was not okay, not even what underwear I had to put on each morning!
While living in Utah does have its drawbacks, it certainly has it's perks as well, more specifically with the local ex-mo's. And the fact that several non local ex-mo's have reasons to visit Utah has been the icing on the cake. I have met the most brilliant, kind, generous, and fun people I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. I am amazed at how normal and fascinating these people are. The friendships I've made are authentic and what I always hoped for, but never received in mormon culture.
One of my friends, Brandon, sent out an email to a bunch of the locals one night. Brandon is very philosphical with fantastic deep thoughts, you can't not love Brandon. Brandon closed his email with saying something to the effect of "It's a pleasure to be in this 'World Is My Oyster' club with all of you, the possibilities are endless. Goodnight"
Now I feel mostly recovered (I still have rare bouts of post mormon anger), and in love with life. I try to take advantage of all learning opportunities that I can, and make each moment count. Life is too short to waste on regrets and what ifs.
My husband and I joined the DAMU, mostly the AIMOO boards such as NOM and The View From the Foyer. We also joined Cherry, but that's not really part of the DAMU. For those who are unaware, DAMU stands for "DisAffected Mormon Underground". We started posting on the boards extremely anonymously. We used fake names with new email addy's to join. We wanted to remain as undercover as possible. We started getting to know some people, and little by little we began to reveal ourselves more and more. I was finally relaxed about using my real name and picture once I came out to my mom.
After our faith crumbled, and we were over the shocked part, we started our own paths of re-discovery. I won't speak about what happened to my husband as that's his story to tell, so I'll just make this all about me. I started learning who I was, what values I stood for, and what I wanted to accomplish and do with my life. I realized that I had been so lazy for so long, always relying on the magical mystery man in the sky to direct my paths. I no longer had someone to pray to when I was scared to drive in the snow. When my employer announced layoffs for my department, I couldn't assume that it was "his" will. I had to really find myself. And I got through some bad snowstorms, based on a competent car and driving ability. I learned to shine my resume and find another job without dwelling on the negatives (might I add, I got a kick-ass promotion with a lot more money out of the deal... so much for not paying tithing!). It sounds cliche, but I really learned to depend on me. I found strengths that I didn't know existed. I learned that I needed to figure out my own boundaries and comfort levels with many of lifes situations. I no longer had anything telling me what was okay and what was not okay, not even what underwear I had to put on each morning!
While living in Utah does have its drawbacks, it certainly has it's perks as well, more specifically with the local ex-mo's. And the fact that several non local ex-mo's have reasons to visit Utah has been the icing on the cake. I have met the most brilliant, kind, generous, and fun people I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. I am amazed at how normal and fascinating these people are. The friendships I've made are authentic and what I always hoped for, but never received in mormon culture.
One of my friends, Brandon, sent out an email to a bunch of the locals one night. Brandon is very philosphical with fantastic deep thoughts, you can't not love Brandon. Brandon closed his email with saying something to the effect of "It's a pleasure to be in this 'World Is My Oyster' club with all of you, the possibilities are endless. Goodnight"
Now I feel mostly recovered (I still have rare bouts of post mormon anger), and in love with life. I try to take advantage of all learning opportunities that I can, and make each moment count. Life is too short to waste on regrets and what ifs.
Saturday, September 30, 2006
My disaffection story
I stopped going to church approximately 16 months ago. I have not officially resigned, and as of now there are no immediate plans to do so. I always figured I would do it if I felt a need, but for now, my ward and family has been pretty respectful of our wishes to be left alone. I've never written my disaffection story before, and in talking to a friend, I realized it might be a good idea to put it on my blog then I can point people here if they're ever interested in knowing my story.
Grab a snack, this could take awhile.
I was BIC, and raised by two devout parents. While we always went to church on sundays, had callings, prayed before meals and bed, we were never totally TBM. We were, but rated R movies were okay once I was old enough, we would run to the grocery store on sundays, had diet coke aplenty in our house. So I guess we were the shades of gray type of sinners. I am the youngest of 5 children, and one by one, all of my older siblings apostasized by the time they were 21. I held on, mostly for my parents sake (so they could have at least ONE "good" kid), and also because in high school, I was good friends with several kids whose fathers were General Authorities. I was surrounded by the goodie goodie types, but I am glad I did. I had some good experiences being friends with these people, and I really learned a lot. I dare say that this helped as I went further along the path of apostacy.
When I was 22 I was married in the Bountiful Temple. My husband was not an RM, but still the good churchy type of guy. For the first two years of our marriage our church attendance was off and on, then we got really active once we bought a house in an older neighborhood with a struggling ward.
The next few years is boring to talk about- we served hefty callings such as YW 1st councellor, EQ presidency, etc. By the time we left the church, I was in the primary presidency and he was the finance clerk. Both of us were extremely involved with our ward. We were there every week, and I mean every week. I think we missed 6 weeks in 6 years, and most of that was from materinity leave time. We really gave our all, made huge efforts and sacrifices and were living as we thought we should.
A few months after I had my twins, I was called to be a gospel doctrine teacher for the teenagers. I'm a pretty hip woman, and still relatively young. I remember what it's like to be a teenager and have always been able to relate to them well. But I was terrified of this calling. First of all, the lesson manuals are the same for 13 year olds as they are for 83 year olds so it was up to me to determine how to gear the lessons so that they would understand.
So for nearly two years, I taught this class. Everything was fine and dandy until I got the Book of Mormon manual. A lof of what I was told to teach didn't make sense, or seemed like a double standard, and I just never felt that "spirit" when I prepared my lessons. Plus sometimes the lessons would contratict each other, and that really annoyed me. I allowed myself to think "What if it's not true?" But I quickly put that thought away. So I asked my husband my burning questions. His answer to me was "Pray more. Have more faith. Read your scriptures more often. It will all work out". I figured he was right, and continued to carry on. I was finally fed up with teaching these teenagers (who would try to trip my toddlers when they were learning how to walk), so I got my guts together and told my bishop I needed to be released. I went about 2 weeks without a calling before I was called to teach primary. Okay, younger kids are a little easier to teach than teenagers, I could handle this. Plus the lessons were easier. I was okay with this calling.
Near the end of the Book of Mormon year our Bishop was visiting primary. The president asked him to tell us what a testimony must consist of. He said that first and foremost, we must believe in the Prophet Joseph Smith. My heart sunk when I heard that. I realized that after this year of teaching BOM lessons, I never had a testimony of Joseph Smith. In fact, something about him was creeping me out this whole time, I just never allowed myself to think about it.
The next few months are a bit of a haze. I went through the motions, very numb. I figured this is what was in store for the rest of my life. Not really believing, but not doing anything about my disbelief. One sunday morning, it was February's fast sunday, I was in a particularly bad mood. I was babysitting the daughter of my good friend- she and her husband were both presidents of different groups and both had to be at early morning ward counsel before church. I was writing out a hefty tithing check, and realizing that I was going to have to put a root canal on my credit card later that week. This thought pissed me off, it made no sense that I had to charge a necessity, yet give cash away to a church that already have PLENTY of cash. The meeting was running overtime and I had to take care of this baby instead of getting myself ready for church and preparing my lesson. Too many small things collided all at once and I had it. And I started griping to my husband, very loudly. The first presidency doesn't give a rats ass about our struggling ward (we live in SLC, and everyone in our ward had 2 or 3 callings each), why am I giving money to this chuch and going into debt for a root canal and crown? I'm tired, I'm exhaused. I had to go to church, then come home alone and take care of my young kids while my husband stayed after for several hours for meetings and counting the tithing. And I don't even really believe in this church, I'm only doing this so that I don't disappoint my parents! At this point my husband stood up and looked at me and said "It's fine with me if you don't want to pay tithing. And quit worrying about your parents. I've been told not to tell you, but your dad doesn't believe anymore either!". I was gutted.
So I went to church that day with tears in my eyes the whole time. I didn't know what to do next. I had been given a link to an essay at Zarahemla city limits, by someone I knew off of an LDS parenting board. http://www.zarahemlacitylimits.com/iron_rod.htm This essay saved my sanity, I highly recommend reading it. Then I read more and more essays, and eventually found The View From The Foyer from there. My husband realized it was okay for him to question and research, and we spend the next two to three months reading everything we could. Eventually I had a talk with my dad, and he was thrilled to know of my choices. I talked to some of my older siblings who disaffected yeeeeeears prior, and they were great for support and giving me more places to research and things to know. I was shocked to learn about the Book of Abraham and Joseph Smith's polyandry. So many little things came out of the woodwork. For me, my disaffection wasn't one thing altogether, it was just all of the small little things that piled up and made it so I could no longer pretend.
For a few months I thought I would try to keep going to church for my mom's sake (I knew I would be a huge disappointment for her, since I was her last hope for eternity), and for a ward friend. Soon after, my friend moved. I was in the primary presidency at this point, and had to do a sharing time lesson on Joseph Smith (this was the year of the church history manual, after all). This made me physically ill. I sat there in primary realizing how much I hated this. I looked at my daughters who were sunbeams and sitting on the front row, and realized that they hated this, too. I figured now is a good time to walk away, they won't remember much about church and could care less if we continued to go. The next week I just didn't go to church, and neither did my husband. He did show up after the meetings to do his duties as finance clerk. Then after he transmitted the funds, he told the bishop that he needed to talk.
The bishop was shocked. We were 100%ers. We did everything we needed to do, and did it happily. The next day I sent a follow up letter that explained to the bishop that this was a joint decision, it was not hasty by any means, and we are at peace with this choice. He did call one time after this meeting, and asked if he could come visit us. I said no, I was no longer going to let him have this power over me. Since then he has stopped by our house once just to see how we were doing. My husband answered the door and said "We're great, thanks for checking in!" and that was it. We have since come out to our families, which were painful processes but liberating at the same time.
I bought myself a coffee maker as a reward for coming clean to all those who matter. This is why I need the DAMU, or post mormon community. Only they will understand the significance of my buying a coffee maker.
Grab a snack, this could take awhile.
I was BIC, and raised by two devout parents. While we always went to church on sundays, had callings, prayed before meals and bed, we were never totally TBM. We were, but rated R movies were okay once I was old enough, we would run to the grocery store on sundays, had diet coke aplenty in our house. So I guess we were the shades of gray type of sinners. I am the youngest of 5 children, and one by one, all of my older siblings apostasized by the time they were 21. I held on, mostly for my parents sake (so they could have at least ONE "good" kid), and also because in high school, I was good friends with several kids whose fathers were General Authorities. I was surrounded by the goodie goodie types, but I am glad I did. I had some good experiences being friends with these people, and I really learned a lot. I dare say that this helped as I went further along the path of apostacy.
When I was 22 I was married in the Bountiful Temple. My husband was not an RM, but still the good churchy type of guy. For the first two years of our marriage our church attendance was off and on, then we got really active once we bought a house in an older neighborhood with a struggling ward.
The next few years is boring to talk about- we served hefty callings such as YW 1st councellor, EQ presidency, etc. By the time we left the church, I was in the primary presidency and he was the finance clerk. Both of us were extremely involved with our ward. We were there every week, and I mean every week. I think we missed 6 weeks in 6 years, and most of that was from materinity leave time. We really gave our all, made huge efforts and sacrifices and were living as we thought we should.
A few months after I had my twins, I was called to be a gospel doctrine teacher for the teenagers. I'm a pretty hip woman, and still relatively young. I remember what it's like to be a teenager and have always been able to relate to them well. But I was terrified of this calling. First of all, the lesson manuals are the same for 13 year olds as they are for 83 year olds so it was up to me to determine how to gear the lessons so that they would understand.
So for nearly two years, I taught this class. Everything was fine and dandy until I got the Book of Mormon manual. A lof of what I was told to teach didn't make sense, or seemed like a double standard, and I just never felt that "spirit" when I prepared my lessons. Plus sometimes the lessons would contratict each other, and that really annoyed me. I allowed myself to think "What if it's not true?" But I quickly put that thought away. So I asked my husband my burning questions. His answer to me was "Pray more. Have more faith. Read your scriptures more often. It will all work out". I figured he was right, and continued to carry on. I was finally fed up with teaching these teenagers (who would try to trip my toddlers when they were learning how to walk), so I got my guts together and told my bishop I needed to be released. I went about 2 weeks without a calling before I was called to teach primary. Okay, younger kids are a little easier to teach than teenagers, I could handle this. Plus the lessons were easier. I was okay with this calling.
Near the end of the Book of Mormon year our Bishop was visiting primary. The president asked him to tell us what a testimony must consist of. He said that first and foremost, we must believe in the Prophet Joseph Smith. My heart sunk when I heard that. I realized that after this year of teaching BOM lessons, I never had a testimony of Joseph Smith. In fact, something about him was creeping me out this whole time, I just never allowed myself to think about it.
The next few months are a bit of a haze. I went through the motions, very numb. I figured this is what was in store for the rest of my life. Not really believing, but not doing anything about my disbelief. One sunday morning, it was February's fast sunday, I was in a particularly bad mood. I was babysitting the daughter of my good friend- she and her husband were both presidents of different groups and both had to be at early morning ward counsel before church. I was writing out a hefty tithing check, and realizing that I was going to have to put a root canal on my credit card later that week. This thought pissed me off, it made no sense that I had to charge a necessity, yet give cash away to a church that already have PLENTY of cash. The meeting was running overtime and I had to take care of this baby instead of getting myself ready for church and preparing my lesson. Too many small things collided all at once and I had it. And I started griping to my husband, very loudly. The first presidency doesn't give a rats ass about our struggling ward (we live in SLC, and everyone in our ward had 2 or 3 callings each), why am I giving money to this chuch and going into debt for a root canal and crown? I'm tired, I'm exhaused. I had to go to church, then come home alone and take care of my young kids while my husband stayed after for several hours for meetings and counting the tithing. And I don't even really believe in this church, I'm only doing this so that I don't disappoint my parents! At this point my husband stood up and looked at me and said "It's fine with me if you don't want to pay tithing. And quit worrying about your parents. I've been told not to tell you, but your dad doesn't believe anymore either!". I was gutted.
So I went to church that day with tears in my eyes the whole time. I didn't know what to do next. I had been given a link to an essay at Zarahemla city limits, by someone I knew off of an LDS parenting board. http://www.zarahemlacitylimits.com/iron_rod.htm This essay saved my sanity, I highly recommend reading it. Then I read more and more essays, and eventually found The View From The Foyer from there. My husband realized it was okay for him to question and research, and we spend the next two to three months reading everything we could. Eventually I had a talk with my dad, and he was thrilled to know of my choices. I talked to some of my older siblings who disaffected yeeeeeears prior, and they were great for support and giving me more places to research and things to know. I was shocked to learn about the Book of Abraham and Joseph Smith's polyandry. So many little things came out of the woodwork. For me, my disaffection wasn't one thing altogether, it was just all of the small little things that piled up and made it so I could no longer pretend.
For a few months I thought I would try to keep going to church for my mom's sake (I knew I would be a huge disappointment for her, since I was her last hope for eternity), and for a ward friend. Soon after, my friend moved. I was in the primary presidency at this point, and had to do a sharing time lesson on Joseph Smith (this was the year of the church history manual, after all). This made me physically ill. I sat there in primary realizing how much I hated this. I looked at my daughters who were sunbeams and sitting on the front row, and realized that they hated this, too. I figured now is a good time to walk away, they won't remember much about church and could care less if we continued to go. The next week I just didn't go to church, and neither did my husband. He did show up after the meetings to do his duties as finance clerk. Then after he transmitted the funds, he told the bishop that he needed to talk.
The bishop was shocked. We were 100%ers. We did everything we needed to do, and did it happily. The next day I sent a follow up letter that explained to the bishop that this was a joint decision, it was not hasty by any means, and we are at peace with this choice. He did call one time after this meeting, and asked if he could come visit us. I said no, I was no longer going to let him have this power over me. Since then he has stopped by our house once just to see how we were doing. My husband answered the door and said "We're great, thanks for checking in!" and that was it. We have since come out to our families, which were painful processes but liberating at the same time.
I bought myself a coffee maker as a reward for coming clean to all those who matter. This is why I need the DAMU, or post mormon community. Only they will understand the significance of my buying a coffee maker.
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